“Mediator's New Breakfast Club Recording - 12th May 2021”
Guest Speakers, from the CIArb (Chartered Institute of Arbitrators):
- Catherine DIXON (Director-General)
- Lewis JOHNSTON (Asst. Dir. of Policy & Ext. Affairs)
- Isabel PHILLIPS (Head of Mediation Development)
“These transcripts have been automatically created. We apologise for any errors and will correct names etc. if we are alerted to them”
Well, good morning, everybody, and welcome to the mediators new Breakfast Club. My name is Michael Cover, and it's my pleasant duty to welcome you all. I was going to have a look. We currently have 76 participants, but there's about 150 that were originally signed up. Just a note that this session is being recorded and will be made available. later on. Before I introduce our distinguished guests from the Chartered Institute of arbitrators, my colleague and friend Dave Evans, just going to invite 10 of the people attending for the first time, as is our tradition to very briefly introduce themselves. So if I may. Can I hand over to Dave?
Thanks, Michael. We've got about 31st timers booked. But I think we aim to try and invite about 10 to introduce themselves. So I've got the list in front of me. If we can start with less Ashford, if you're there less please. No, okay, we'll move on to Eduardo Eduardo Calvo, please. You need to unmute yourself. And when we move on, Susanna Cotterill, please.
Yeah, if your name is called, maybe you could put your hand up that would help Martin Susanna Susanna Cottrell. Okay, I will move on, we might be able to come back to them. Haley Mackey. If you could put your hand up handy. That'll make life a lot easier. No, not on. Okay. And Derek Marshall. Oh, he's pretty sound. Yeah. Hello, Derek. unmute yourself. Please unmute myself. Hello.
So I'm I'm a barrister from college chambers in Southampton until, until last month, I was the head of chambers. And I've happily handed that responsibility with somebody else. Poor bloke. So I've been mediating for about about 12 years. I'm also a family finance arbitrator, and I sit as the LPC on the police conduct panel. So I've got a fairly eclectic practice. And most of the mediations I see these days tend to be people argue about about wills and and inheritance claims. And so I'm very interested to hear everyone else to say today.
Thanks Derek. McMillen Stuart Stuart McMillan Okay, moving on, when he when he polishes pronounciation Alek where we now moving on again, Mary, Mary. Oh, sorry. Can you hear me when he when he Yep. Carry on.
Hi, good morning, guys. Hi. And yes, I'm a workplace and commercial mediator. So happy to join the group. And yeah,
great stuff that you're doing guys. Thank you very much. Thank you. You're very welcome. Mary panel again, please. Know Harry Harrisburg. Hi, yes, do I think you mean me Harrisburg? barista at a mediator an IPS mediation, a barrister at Guildhall chambers in Bristol. I'm delighted to be here. Thanks for having me. And very nice to see you all. Thank you. Mark. nerissa Tl
that's me. It's not David, tell us break your toe, newly qualified mediator. CMC recently retired dentist very pleased to join your group and thank you
Thank you. fatale zibin Vitaly okay. I think we can come back to Susanna Cotterill I think you've joined Susanna.
Yes. Good morning. Sorry to be late. I'm a bit of a gap playing company for about 15 years. Maybe do family mediations but little bespoke equestrian mediation, so I'm quite well known in that field happily.
Thank you. Are there any first other first timers that would like to introduce? Arabella? Yes. Everyone lovely to be here. My name is Arabella tresillian. I'm based in Bath. I mediate with the medical mediation foundation and resolve West and I'm a trainer as well I trained mediators in workplace mediation conversion with cedar and Mental Health First Aid as well. So I specialise in, in mental health particularly, I do health and social care mediation, judicial reviews, court protection, Mental Health Act disputes for the NHS. lovely to be here thankful. Thank you, Arabella. How much did you put your hand up? We can't hear you, Alice. I don't think she is unmuted. Still can't if you don't, you're not shown as mute but you're not. There's no voice, I'm afraid.
Okay, Dave, should we get started? That's a representative cross section. Thank you. Yeah. Okay. Well, thank you, everybody. And I'd like to welcome and introduce our guests from the Chartered Institute of arbitrators. Catherine Dixon, who is the Director General, there was Johnson, who's the Assistant Director of Policy and external affairs, and who's also very much involved in the DSO dispute appointment service, which I'm sure is of interest to lots of us. And last but not least, Isabel Phillips, the head of mediation development. So I think that's the running order. So should I hand over to you, Katherine. And off we go. Thank you. Thank
you, Michael. And thank you everyone for inviting me along today. We've got a few slides just to talk a little bit about the organisation which I'll just share my screen and then we'll then we'll perhaps because starts
secureness just looking for the slideshow. She causes a challenge. Everybody can see that hopefully anyway. So as a starting point, I just
tried to move my screen down a little bit so that you can access a slideshow somewhere reason it's no to itself, but I will fiddle around while I introduce myself. So I'm I'm Katherine Dixon. I'm the Director General of the Chartered Institute of arbitrators, and I've been in post since the first of May 2020. So pretty much running the organisation virtually for the last year. And I my background is I'm a solicitor and mediator, I've got an MBA and I've been a chief executive officer probably for around 10 years now. I was chief executive of the Royal Society in Wales. And prior to that I was a chief executive in the NHS, I ran the organisation that indemnifies the the NHS NHS resolution, which deals with all the claims it's got a claim budget of around 1.3 billion per annum. Normally around 16,000 pieces of ongoing litigation and I during my time there, I wasn't able to sort of introduce mediation and start embedding mediation into the NHS. I've also run a sort of large further and higher education, college. But I spent most of my career in in house. I was the commercial and Legal Director at booper, the private health provider and insurer. I was also General Counsel at the NSPCC and I spent a little bit of time living or working In Canada was an Outward Bound instructor for a little while. And then I was a director at Vancouver coastal Health Authority. in private practice, I was a commercial litigator. So I did use alternative dispute resolution or effective dispute resolution on a regular basis. I left school quite early, and that later joined the army. And I was an army officer for a little while. And I'm currently studying the Army Reserve. When I'm not working, I bore people with cycling stories. I just before I joined the chatting to arbitrators, I settled around the world, and I broke the world record for being the fastest person to circumnavigate the world on a tandem. So very happy to talk about cycling as well. So going back to what we're supposed to be talking about, perhaps I'll just hand over very briefly to my two colleagues who are going to speak to today and ask that they introduce themselves. And then I'm going to talk a little bit about the organization's strategy and priorities. And then we're going to get into some more specifics on both our policy work, you know, with a focus on the A PPG. And also specifically on our mediation strategy, which is also going to talk through, but Louis, do you want, would you just like to introduce yourself?
Yes, certainly. Thank you, Katherine. And thanks, everybody, for inviting us here today. It's, it's a pleasure to see a lot of familiar faces and also some some unfamiliar faces. So thank you for inviting us. For those who haven't met me before. My name is Louis Johnstone, I'm Assistant Director for policy and External Affairs at the Chartered Institute. My role within the institute is really to ensure that we're fulfilling our our royal charter mandate of promoting and facilitating all forms of ADR as an alternative to the court, and notwithstanding our name of the Chartered Institute of arbitrators, that really is all forms of ADR. And we were very adamant that we wanted to kind of communicate that and emphasise our role as a home for mediators, as well as arbitrators. So that's something that I want to talk about today. In terms of my background, I've been with the institute now for for just over three years. Prior to that, I was head of the parliamentary affairs team, our ICS where I did actually interact with their their own dispute resolution service, their answer was I was familiar with the world of, of ADR. My focus, there was also primarily on housing and infrastructure policy, which are, you know, still still areas of real interest for me. In terms of my own personal life, I can't claim any world records like Katherine, but I do bore my colleagues about marathon training and hoping that once the the lock downs are lifted, I can get back to running marathons again. So yeah, it's a real pleasure to speak to you today. I like to just hand over to my colleague Isabel, head of head of mediation development, you can introduce yourself now as well.
Name everyone, lovely to be here. And yeah, as set by title as head of mediation, development, and an organisation like seog, with members across 150 countries in the world. That's quite a wide scope, I know a wide range of needs and situations for mediators across the world. And so I'm looking not just at things like training and development, but also thought leadership and all aspects of how to develop mediation on a global scale. And, by way of background, I have spent my entire career working in mediation and conflict, I decided I wanted to become a mediator in around 9394. And obviously, that was pre CPR. So the concept of becoming a lawyer in order to be a mediator was somewhat alien, given. If one knew at that time people involved in legal proceedings. It was an interesting concept that lawyers might be involved in mediation, I have, of course changed my view heavily but I chose to, therefore not become a lawyer before becoming a mediator. And I've worked across the last 25 or so years in both the context of social socio political mediation and violent conflict as well as commercial. And so I spent extended periods in Bosnia and in Ethiopia, and early on in a number of long term project in the, towards the end of the war in Lebanon in the mid 90s. Um, and I've also spent long periods in commercial work, I was working with Sita for a number of years, and both early on being employed there and then working as a consultant. And I was a faculty member with Sita for for many years as well. And I've spent a part of that time sort of from 2010 onwards, working as a consultant and doing freelance mediation and conflict work, but also researching and writing a PhD on the subject of mediation, and specifically adea, and a CR, and how these two worlds of the the commercial and the socio political do and don't interact with each other. And
well, I'm like Katherine, who still gets to cycle I, I'm still waiting to be able to do one of two of the things that that I enjoy doing, pre COVID. And one of them being Argentine Tango, which, unfortunately, is very, very much off limits at the moment. But looking forward to doing that. And I'm very excited to have my first vaccination yesterday. So if you're a radio one listener, there's a little song that goes along with that, but I won't sing it, I won't subject you to that. So great to meet you.
Thank you, Louise. Thank you, Isabelle. So I'm going to spend probably 10 minutes or so just talking a little bit about CR, the organisation and the organization's strategy. So it'll be kind of a high level view, I appreciate some of you will be familiar, but perhaps some of you won't. So if you wouldn't mind indulging me and then we'll get into some specifics on on mediation. So say, I'm a global membership organisation, but it's also a professional body in the sense that it has professional standards that we expect members to sign up to adhere to, we've got, actually, since I wrote the slide, we've got actually over 17,000 members now, based around the world, around 150 jurisdictions, we have 41 branches, those branches are actually run by members for members. And those branches tend to deliver training as well as other thought leadership activities, social activities, networking, and, and various, various other related activities. And this, this is kind of what the global membership currently looks like. It's grown a little bit since we put this this together, but you can see that we are, you know, pretty much operating around the world, there are more opportunities for growth, and for more members to join our global community. But you'll see that there's quite a significant number of members in, in Asia, growing numbers in in Africa, opportunities to grow more in Latin America or South America. And we also have members in in North a member of North America, including an off American branch, Canadian branch and branch in New York branches in the Caribbean, and Bahamas. We've got a I think, you know, perhaps traditionally the the organisation has been associated with more common law jurisdictions, English speaking, but actually that is changing and we're seeing a significant number of members now coming from civil civil jurisdictions and to a certain extent non English speaking. So we are looking to deliver training in, in other languages other than English and the vision really simple, a world where disputes are resolved promptly, effectively and creatively. And you'll see there there's a mission we're actually a royal charter. organisation, so our and the charity so our our mission is sort of embedded in our on our royal charter, but you can see the all the things that you would expect a membership and global bodies such as ourselves to be concentrating on and you'll see this also reflected in our strategy when I came into it Post last last year, we took the opportunities to work with board members with our branches to look at our strategy, and to think about how do we take the organisation forward for the next few years. And, and these are our new strategic aims, which I hope resonate with you all. So the first being to globally promote the constructive resolution of disputes. So this means really raising the profile of ADR, obviously, including mediation. So where I think traditionally, as Lewis said, we have been associated more with international arbitration, there's a real emphasis now on all forms of, you know, what we've traditionally termed as alternative dispute resolution, which includes mediation. And I think in in that we can talk a little bit about some of the areas where we are focusing around promoting and raising the profile of ADR. The second aim there is to be a global and inclusive, thought leader. And certainly, I think both Isabel and Lewis will will touch on some of the work that we're doing in that regard. And the third is, is around creating and developing an inclusive global community of diverse dispute resolvers. And that's bringing people across the world or our members together, to share knowledge, to share experiences to network, and to effectively work together. And there's a big emphasis there on equality, diversity and inclusion, which I will also touch on.
So just talking a little bit about strategic a number one promotion, you know, we are looking to sort of raise the profile of ADR, you know, particularly the value that it brings to society in the economy. We're hoping to do some research in that regard, later, later this year and into into next, we're also keen to differentiate CR members. Because if you join CR, you've made a commitment to training and to developing your expertise. But also you're signing up to a set of professional standards and ethical rules, which give assurance to the people who may engage you surround your your area of practice. And that's certainly a big differentiator for many of our members who are operating globally, we've also got a commitment for our charitable objectives to support and train kind of non members. So that's, that's about raising the profile. So that's about working with business, you know, we were working with sort of SMEs with with people who perhaps don't want to go on and have a professional career in ADR, but to familiarise them with the, with the processes so that in the event that they do have disputes, they will think about using alternative methods rather than the traditional view of the of the going to go into court. And I think working collaboratively with other organisations is also one of our objectives. And we are doing that increasingly, around the world. And that might be training organisations, or it might be other professional bodies. But certainly, we're creating a sort of a host of partnership opportunities, as part of this aim to, to raise the profile of ADR. We, and I'm sure Lewis will talk more about this, but we, we in with our policy work, we also seek to influence we're looking to create this home for dispute resolution, which means, you know, as we've talked about raising raising the profile, but also working effectively with with governments and other key stakeholders to shape dispute resolution across the world, which includes where there are opportunities to either mandate or certainly introduce different forms of dispute resolution, we work we work to do that. And I think we've also as a charity, but also the professional body use opportunities to promote and and where we can reinforce the rule of law and enable access to justice. And I think there's an increasing conversation about using ADR to enable active access to justice, particularly a time when we know that in many countries, the court system is is struggling as a consequence of the of the pandemic and indeed otherwise. So there's a focus with with our thought leadership work around use of technology and and that's me, I suspect that that's a passion certainly All of us, but I suspect that Isabel will touch on that, insofar as that can relate to, to mediation. And we also do quite a lot of horizon scanning. So the idea being that if we're seeing trends around the world, we can inform members so that they can be on the front foot in relation to their practice, and how they might respond to that, as opposed to sort of hearing about it, you know, later later on. So it enables them both form and technology perspective, but also perhaps, policy issues. And we've touched on professional standards, in terms of creating a global community, what we're really looking to achieve there is around supporting people with their career progression, irrespective of where they might be with it. And that's really, I suppose, related to the career progression in ADR. So we appreciate that many people will come into perhaps, you know, want to be mediators, or indeed, arbitrators, you know, what, what once they've already had, perhaps a career in legal practice, or surveying or architecture, or whatever else it may be. And we're looking to support them through that, that that journey, and growing, growing, our membership is key, we're doing a lot of work to reach out to our membership to really sort of understand what it is that they want and need from us. So we're creating, for example, an insight panel where you can join and you can feed back, if we have ideas, we can come to you and say, do you think this is a good idea or not, because we're really keen for the organisation to be so driven and informed by its members, so that, you know, we are actually responding to those needs,
we will also supporting our branches, to develop networks to develop their local expertise. So indeed, if you obviously many of the people today will be probably UK based, but you know, opportunities to speak to other practitioners around the world, and create that that branch network and to enable people to join in with discussions that are perhaps happening in different jurisdictions, which may be relevant is is is obviously something that we're keen to promote, and we have regular discussions going on globally, with, with our branches with those every every quarter in which we're sharing information on the ground. And, and they're, you know, and obviously, sharing some of the information that we're seeing, you know, coming into the into the centre, I'm really keen that we we highlight the contribution that our members are making as part of our our strategic approach. And there's a real emphasis on everything we do, we're seeking to embed equality, diversity, and inclusion, and that's really sort of enabling people to join the the ADR profession, irrespective of their backgrounds. And, you know, we've got a number of programmes to support that including a mentor, a mentoring programme that we're rolling out later, when it's actually actually early June. So, if you if you undertake our training and join you, you do get some posts, phenomenal letters after your name, which is sort of recognition of the of the training that you've you've done and the commitment that you've made to improving your expertise, but also, it's a recognition of the fact that you have signed up to our professional standards and rules. And those those letters are recognised around the world. You know, as a side, there has been, perhaps a focus on international arbitration, but we're keen that they are increasingly recognised for other forms of dispute dispute alternative dispute resolution. So I'm, I'm happy now to, to sort of be Passover to Louis, I'll just stop sharing my, my screen, but perhaps before I'm paying that would there's opportunities for questions at the end, but if there's anything that came out of my presentation that anybody wanted to ask about before I hand over to Louis and really happy to take any any, any sort of brief questions.
Yeah, if anybody's anybody got a question, you want to put your hand up and we can bring him in? Has anybody got their hand up, Martin? I can't see all the people here. Okay, well, let's say that to the end. Okay. Thank you, Catherine. When we go over to you.
Excellent. Thanks, everybody. I'm just about to, to share my screen so just bear with me a moment. Can everybody see those slides
Yep. Okay, I'll just see if I can share these as well fully. Just be one second, I think the polls just just popped up, which is
there we are. Excellent. I hope everyone can see that. So yeah, thank you very much, Catherine. And I think I don't want to take too much of everybody's time at this point, because I know that you'll all be very keen to hear from from Isabel has had a mediation, specifically about our mediation strategy. But what I did want to do was just talk through some of it just just flesh out a bit about what Catherine said about our role as a professional body. specifically talk about the role of policy and external affairs, in delivering that, and then talk about some of the specific initiatives that we've undertaken that will be of interest to you as mediators that illustrates what that actually looks like in practice. So as Catherine said, earlier, we are we are a charity, and we're a royal chartered body, we're bound by the terms of that Royal Charter. And the purpose in that Royal Charter is to promote and facilitate worldwide, the determination of disputes by arbitration and alternative means of private dispute resolution, over the resolution by the court. Now, this is really front and centre of my mind, in terms in terms of the work that I do work in with governments, both in the UK and also around the world. It really is about trying to embed the use of of arbitration and mediation right across the piece. Whether that is through direct regulation, whether it's through the incorporation of ADR in legislation, or whether it's through cultural changes, and actually trying to reflect some of that that kind of societal and attitudinal shift, so that people are more willing to use ADR that involves working with potential parties, so potential end users, and also through our, through our training and influencing, equipping them with the skills that they need. So there's really a great deal of interplay between our policy influencing work and our role as an accrediting and, and training body. Just on the point of training and accreditation. I didn't mention in my introduction, that I recently became a cir accredited mediator. Last year, I undertook the the online module one mediation course, which is the first time that this had been being carried out online as part of our reaction to the pandemic. And that that really is about providing confidence to the market, that the people who have been accredited as mediators have been through a rigorous and comprehensive training programme. That's very much skills, but skills based, it's practically based, you have to undertake and demonstrate your skills as a mediator. And that that's been rigorously, rigorously assessed by very experienced professionals as well. So coming back to our role as a policy body, we do seek to influence policy as the voice of all forms of alternative dispute resolution, we are bound to act in the public interest, I think this is really key, we're not a trade body. Whilst I actually think there's a real symbiosis between it when it works properly, there's a symbiosis between the interests of our members and the interests of the wider society. But we are not a trade body. In that sense. We're not we're certainly not a lobbying body. And we have to have a broad presence and undertake a great deal of thought leadership to show that we're really at the cutting edge of thinking in the field.
In terms of practically what we do to do that, I won't spend too long on this because caffeine is as as talked about it already, but it's very much about horizon scanning, influencing. We're always looking to work in partnership where we got common interests, and that's as true of mediation as in any other field and to provide advice and support to our members to help them navigate the policy landscape and understand to changes. And this is very much on a, I really want to emphasise the global dimension to this we will always look at jurisdictions around the world to see best practice and what may be happening there. So for instance will be relevant here is looking at the the uptake of mandatory mediation in India, for example, and in other jurisdictions and what lessons might be drawn from that, and how that might influence our policy positioning. In terms of some of the practical work that we've undertaken recently, there's some of you may be familiar with. It already came up briefly in conversation earlier. We are the Secretariat to the all party parliamentary group for alternative dispute resolution, chaired by john Hill. Last year, we released a report on behalf of the A bbg, which was really about comparing Singapore in the UK as centres for dispute resolution. And a whole chapter of that report was dedicated to the role of mediation and how that can be be better promoted. I know that the the members of the APB g particularly john howlers share a very enthusiastic about the potential of mediation to be used, but they also feel that it is underutilised, particularly by government at present and government and the judiciary. And so their recommendations in that report and the report can be found on the website for those who haven't seen it yet. But there were three key recommendations relevant there. The first was that the UK should sign up to the Singapore mediation convention. Now that recommendation was was not only about the practical benefits of the convention in boosting, enforceability, and, and creating an a more more coherent platform for mediation worldwide. It was also fundamentally about trying to generate some real momentum behind mediation and normalise that, on the world stage as a form of dispute resolution. Certainly Cinderella men in the chief justice in Singapore is a real evangelist for the role that mediation can can play. And feels that it really is one of the dispute mechanisms of the future that there's a real appetite in the market to take this on. Another element of the the APG report's recommendations was about encouraging it greater training of mediators and really training a wider and more diverse pool of mediators. Now, I think that the key here was that that training had to be rigorous and accredited so that the market could have real confidence that, that mediators have the necessary skills, and that that's underpinned by accreditation. Obviously, there are different forms of that. In terms of our response to the report, we feel very strongly and I know that, Isabel were talking about this during her section, but we, it's really the core of our purpose to maintain the value of cir accreditation across all all disciplines. And mediation is no different. The final element of the Singapore, Singapore report's recommendations in relation to mediation was about equipping the judiciary, with the skills and infrastructure that's needed to promote mediation as an integral part of the dispute resolution process. And so when necessary to unburden the courts of the huge caseload that they're dealing with divert appropriate cases towards mediation. And making sure that the judiciary had the understanding of the process, so that they were able to do that. Within. within the UK, we're always advocating greater use of mediation and the the ABB g report is is a good platform for that. Over elements of the ABB g report talked about access to justice for for business and meeting the needs of business, particularly SMEs. And one of the the, one of our areas of emphasis at the moment is making sure that there is a really wide range of options open to end users, particularly SMEs and that they see
mediation as part of that toolkit part of that suite of options that they can access. We've seen, I think in even in the course of the last year. Not only The mediation bit for instance, in in adjudication with the low value, adjudication model adjudication procedure for the CIC, specifically targeting SMEs and the cmcs fixed fee mediation scheme, which I think looking ahead could be quite quite an important part of that, in terms of improving the routes that SMEs can go down. I know that one of the themes of our discussion today was was complementarity. So just before I hand over to to Isabel, I wanted to talk a bit about our role in developing professional practice guidelines, and particularly where that has implications for mediation. So complementarity, I think has to be at the heart of our role as a as a professional body. As I say, we do cover all forms of dispute resolution. And one of the things that we're really focusing on as we develop our strategy going ahead, are the links between those different forms of dispute resolution. So really trying to break down some of the the arbitrary distinctions between them, acknowledging where there are, of course differences and where some of the challenges in the interplay between them may may arise, but really encouraging cross cross discipline, understanding, and interplay so that professionals can really draw on a whole toolkit of different skills. a core part? Well, a core illustration of this would be the the mediation and arbitration guideline, which was in its initial form was actually developed in 2011. And it will shortly that it's been revised and will shortly be be issued. Now, the real focus of this this guideline is is to demonstrate how mediation can be used at all stages of the arbitration process and to really advise on the benefits of that. And also some of the considerations that need to be taken into account. So for instance, if an arbitrator is going to then act as the mediator, the guideline doesn't actually take a position specifically on on whether that is advisable It is very much left up to the the autonomy of the parties involved. However, it does highlight some of the considerations that need to be taken into account to ensure that that can be a credible and robust if that is how things proceed. It, it seeks to avoid any misleading shorthand so it isn't another guideline on ARB, med ARB, or med ARB, med or med ARB or ARB med, it's really far more holistic than that and tries to delve into its principles based and is looking at how mediation can be used right across the dispute journey. So from pre dispute to the commencement of proceedings to post arbitration mediation, where that might be relevant. In terms of the audience, it's primarily practising arbitrators, but seeking to equip them with the tools that they need to to understand how they can deploy mediation effectively. And it's as I say, it's to foster a greater understanding of how it can be used, and to highlight some of the potential pitfalls and concerns that may arise through that process. We also have a suite of mediation practice guidelines with the current suite is obviously now goes back quite a long way. You look to 2007. And so we are,
we're very conscious that they need to be updated, and in some cases, completely overhauled. We are not in a position where we're looking to simply revise and update the existing suite of guidelines in this area, we want to take almost a blank sheet of paper approach and look where any of the gaps might be a lot has changed since 2007. Indeed, a lot has changed in the last 18 months. So we really want to make sure that that is captured within the professional practice guidelines, as I've illustrated with the mediation and arbitration guidelines about giving pragmatic tools to practitioners. It is it really is across all of our guidelines, and again, you can find them on our website that focuses very much on practical, usable, tangible tools that people can use. And actually use so they're not sort of long winded academic screeds. It really tries to get into the nuts and bolts of what a practitioner needs in the course of their work. And we really want our data mediation guidelines to fulfil that role. As I say, We're about to commence that process. So input and suggestions are very welcome. I think our practice guidelines are really, at the heart of our our purpose as a as an organisation. It covers so many of those strategic games that Catherine referred to, in her presentation earlier about supporting our members, and providing cutting edge insights. Just before I hand over to Isabel, I know. And Michael, introduced earlier that I am also I oversee the dispute appointment service at the Institute. And as part of my role, you may have some questions later on. Perhaps after after Isabelle has spoken, I'd be happy to answer some of those. We do have a presidential panel of mediators, as an appointing body mediation appointments at the moment, and not a big, big part of what we do. We are looking to raise our profile. And that's something as a as a body for mediators, and hopefully is an appointing body for mediation as well in the course of that, and that's something Isabel will talk about. But details of of our presidential panel can be found online. It's open to, to shell fellows to to apply for a panel appointment certificate to join that. And we're also looking at our role as a named body under the CMC, fixed fee, mediation scheme, which I think was a was a really great initiative, and how that can fit as part of those ambitions as well. So I'd be very happy to take any questions, and I am conscious that you will be eager to hear from from Isabel so I don't want to take up too much time. I would encourage perhaps to hear from Isabel First of all, and then take questions at the end. But if anyone was eager to ask me anything now be happy to answer it.
Okay, thanks. Thanks, Louis. Has anybody got any burning questions about it? Please put your hand up. Roger.
Hi, low. Thank you very much for that. Very, very interesting to hear that you're thinking of raising your profile now on the mediation side? I've been on the panel for for several years, and I've worked with several of your predecessors. And the greatest challenge to me as a mediator looking at mediation for your profile, of course, is the name. And from all the experience I've had I see, the people don't look at the cir as a destination for mediation because they don't know it does mediation.
I think that's that's a reasonable point, Roger, I think as I as I mentioned in the introduction as well. The is ci ARB and one of the reasons why you'll note that I refer to this as cir, rather than the Chartered Institute of arbitrators in long form, is because I really want to emphasise that we do cover all of those different areas. It's similar for for adjudication. I think, you know, clearly we have the heritage of this name, I think the onus is really on us to to promote our role as a home for all forms of dispute resolution to the market. And I think that's that's really, really key. And that's something that that is about we'll be talking about as well. And I know that when he had a question as well about diversity, go for it. Yeah, go for it. Go for thank. Thanks, Michael. Thanks for that question. Winning I think one of the big strategic games is to promote diversity and inclusion across all of our operations within within the Institute, our panels are no different to that. We are in the process of assessing exactly across different criteria and across different dimensions what the diversity of our panels are I think to be frank, it isn't where we would like it to be at the moment. And so we recognise that that is something that needs to be addressed in terms of hard data on that one of the issues that we have is that we don't have the kind of granular data on on the diversity of our panels not only for, for mediation, but right across the piece. And so I think you can't address a problem until you've fully identified it and properly clarified what that is. It's certainly something that's right at the core of our our strategic aims, as a body I think, not only as it's just a strategic game in itself, but it's something that underpins everything that we do. I think it's it really needs to be effective. It needs to be something that's, that's incorporated across everything that we do. And I think I'm reminded here about actually the this is in the context of, of arbitration, but recently the the whitened case international arbitration survey looked at how do you promote diversity in in dispute resolution? And I think the very high on the list of responses was the role of appointing bodies and institutions in providing those opportunities. And I think that's, that's certainly true for mediation as well.
Thanks, Louis. So we move on to Isabel. Time is racing on Would that be okay?
Yes, certainly, Mike, I know that there are a couple of other questions, but I think if we if we can pick those up, I'm eager that you won't be left out if you will pick those up afterwards. Yeah. Okay.
Well, yeah, if you can, you can maybe have a look at them and see what you want. So maybe pass it on to Isabel Isabel, over to you.
And so I'm aware there's a couple of hands up, but I'm very aware that I know that one or two people have already told me that they have to leave at 11 you will just go to run and pick up questions at the end. So my first the first thing I want to do is to ask all you guys a question and I'm sure you're all familiar with zoom chat function. So if you haven't hover over the bottom and click on the chat button so that you can see the chat going on the right hand side of your screen. And what I'd like you to do in there is just to write yes or no in the chat and my question is do you know what roof slate is? Do you know what roof slate is? Just a yes or no? What? roof slate? I'm getting quite a lot of yeses here wanted to knows. I think the yeses have it so far. Late. Yeah. Yeah, I think I think they the SS have it. So here's a question to all of those who answered Yes. Do you know what now we're free to go? Listen quite carefully here. What random course diminishing slate is random cause diminishing slating?
I'm getting some nose with quite a lot of booze and then one or two arms. But I have got a yes. Somebody has given a yes. So if anybody who said yes. then feel free to write a one sentence explanation of what it is there's a challenge for you. And I'm looking forward to to any answer to that. So nice little poll. Do you know what a cigarette is? a cigarette? Yes or no? Definitely not getting any nose on that one. Okay, so here's the next question. Do you know which local cigarette brands would be safe to put on a cafe table in Westminister in the late 90s or early noughties? Please name the brands? If you do otherwise say no.
No, I'm not getting any. I'm not getting any. Yes. Okay. So, somebody has asked of course, the most important question here is why the hell am I asking these questions? What where am I going with this? What's what what is the relevance of these things? What these questions relate to is what we as mediators need. And I'm not suggesting a smoking habit, I managed to give up. I hope all you did, too, at some point, if not good luck with that one, it's not easy. But this is about the things that that we need, depending on where we're working on how we're working, and what we're working with. And I'm going to do that fun thing of trying to share my screen. And I think that that as mediators, we generally need three key things, three groups of things, if you leave, if you like, in order to can't become mediator in the first place, we need training. And then after we've trained and got some sort of practical qualification, preferably with some external recognition, ongoing learning and learning community, I can promise I did not know what random cost diminishing slates in when I was at university, or nevermind when, before that, it's contextual knowledge which I had to develop at a particular point in order to do what I was doing in the construction sector was specialist knowledge. And there's a lot of people I'm sure on this call, who do construction mediation, but don't necessarily know what random cause dementia sighting is, because it's a pretty specific thing. So even within a particular area of mediation practice, it doesn't mean you're an expert on everything, you have to have the ability not just to have specific knowledge, but also to develop that knowledge to research according to whatever cases you're currently dealing with. Hence, the ongoing learning and ongoing development and community. Su, and the other thing that we need is a career path. Most careers have some sort of system, which you could put into chunks of sort of qualification, apprenticeship of some sort practitioner, and then at some point becoming senior to a greater or lesser extent, right. And we often need a viable business thought. So we might be operating in a supply driven context or a demand driven and that has different implications. Around mediation, there's often the question of is it supply or demand driven because of awareness of mediation, or because of the compulsion to use it, but we basically need some way of selling our services. So in relation to these needs, and thinking about how these needs are met, varies across the world. And we have members as as Kathryn, unless have already mentioned, and 150 countries across the world. And some of these are more or less present for members around the globe. So the data that I'm drawing on in terms of how to meet these needs, or to make a contribution to meeting those needs, because clearly, we can't do everything. And it's just simply not possible to do everything for everybody. And one of the one of the things I've been doing is looking across our membership and talking to people around the world as to where these key needs are not present or out how they are met. And one of the things that I'm noticing is that the developmental level or economic power of a particular jurisdiction, is not an indication either of mediation expertise or abuse level. And there's an interplay of the strength and role of the legal system, and its use of mediation, and also, in many contexts, traditional dispute resolution systems, whether that's customary or whether that's an informal processes that are culturally, culturally normal.
And there's the issue of career path and what is normal in terms of professional pathways and ideals. And then what you're what I'm seeing is where people are applying some of the ideas around mediation, the idea of negotiating, integrating different ideas and looking for creative solutions, there's more likelihood that those professional routes roots are being developed effectively. And it's also really highlighting the importance of the global professional. This is really an becoming more and more the case in terms of the online and virtual use, which what I'm seeing people say to me again and again, from Africa to Asia to South America is that they don't actually think people are going to go back to how it was pre COVID is not going to simply go from having been and this is made across the board and what people are saying to me, yes, I was mediating pretty much completely face to face before COVID. Now, it's almost exclusively online. And it might go back to an extent to face to face but not completely. So that means that people are getting more and more involved in situations with parties from different countries and different locations and working and working in in much more international ways than then have been the case previously, or at least cross regional within the country. And that changes the market. And it changes the potential for learning across the different markets as well. Because just as I know that we've got a whole bunch of people from across the world, on this call, that's the case in all learning, or learning environments. So in the UK, what you've purchased as an example, the mediation market is and as far as I'm aware, has always been effectively supply driven. And when I started working in the UK, having moved to the UK, from from, from Germany and Bosnia, in the early noughties, and there was a lot of emphasis on the fact that this was going to be a breakthrough, there was going to be a change once people knew what mediation was, and that the problem was a lack of awareness about what mediation was. And of course, mediation use has increased in the UK, but it's still a supply driven market. Because the whilst as awareness, the expected jump in usage just hasn't happened. So that raises questions as to why people do or don't actually use mediation themselves. And that question, I would say, is actually quite an important question. to, to mediators to you guys. Because there's an interesting question as to how often and in what circumstances you as individuals, not as mediators, but you as the people who really believe mediation is something that should be used can be used, and has all sorts of benefits? Have you actually used it? When was the last time you actually appointed a mediator? Not in a case that you're taking as lawyer, for instance, but in your own situation? I think it's quite an interesting question, because it does have very big implications for the multiplier effect to people who are persuaded that it works. So I think that there's some some really key questions around that. I'm going to ask Martin, just to bring up the second poll at this point. And this is really just highlighting and asking you guys, what are the things that you think you need most is as mediator. Again, some some things that I expect might be might be needs for you. And but just to choose four of them as the things that you think are most important to you, or that you need most at this point. Um, so what I'm seeing is at the moment, the the initial poll,
at onyx, unsurprisingly, paid mediation work. This is a career path that you've chosen, you've got accreditation, you want to actually practice. The other things that are coming out there a business development support, also relation to paid mediation work, but also the peer support and community. points, I think are are important in terms of coming back to this question of what cigarette and what brands you use. And what random cost diminishing slating is, because as mediators, we constantly have to adjust to different cases, to different contexts, and to work with very, very different people. And that's very difficult to do if you're somehow alone. I'm not surrounded by working on your own when you're in mediation as a rule or maybe, hopefully with an assistant or with somebody who's also learning from you, or maybe a mentor has come along to actually chat to you and to to, to give you support support in that direction, to develop that practice to to see the things that you don't see and to see how you are or aren't connecting with the people that you're working with. So the context of CRP and the membership worldwide gives us an opportunity to really look at how to connect the different needs across the world into a strategy that hopefully, really does pick up some if not all of these needs. Um, so the first and key point is the complementarity. And this is something that Katherine and Lois have already talked about, but I really can't stress it enough. And in the work that I was doing, until, until last year, and now arrival of COVID, and therefore my, my departure, and I was doing London resource management and mediation and dialogue in the border regions of Ethiopia, and in violent contact conflict context. And they have very, very strong complementary traditional dispute resolution systems in that context, and they wouldn't ever call it complementarity. It's a it's a fancy word it's but the, the idea of having managed transitions from one type of third party role to another according to need, and that comes back again to this idea of trying to fix med or med or med or med Arbel, whatever. In some context, it's important to know that, clearly, you need a packet of vault evolve, or Alon her, you don't want any of the others, if you're in Westminster, you also do really not want to put one held down on a table and East muster in 2000. It was a life changing decision to do something like that be the wrong person, but
textual understanding of how to transition from one to the other, and how to work with parties. And who does that. So the same person, a different person, if it's going to be a different person, how is how does that happen? absolutely crucial, and something where we, and I speak, you know, clearly as English mother tongue speaking, white, Anglo Saxon person, don't have all the answers on this. There are lots of people with a lot more experience than me as a British person. There's lots of people that I can and I have learned from. And this comes back to a link between things like the complementarity point and the inclusive global community, we can learn from each other if we start realising that we don't know everything, and that as a call mediator skill of being curious and being aware of what you don't understand your and what you don't know, is as important almost as what you do know, and being aware of the opportunity to work around that. So that might sound a little bit abstract, in really concrete terms. To give a couple of examples, and those who already mentioned India were caught. Mandatory mediation is being introduced across the courts in India at the moment, which means that, for instance, in just in the Delhi Supreme Court, there's 150 mediations a day happening. So to say that the the numbers in some of the other jurisdictions, similar things happen in Kenya, dwarf what we're doing in the UK, and that there might be things that can be learned in both directions is an interesting an interesting point. And that also highlights the middle point that I'm making there about the differentiated support. So in the UK, we've got a massive oversupply of mediators in other contexts. And with the introduction of mandatory mediation across broad swathes of the country very quickly, there's a there's sometimes a lack of mediators. So how can can see our bring branches and members across the world together to actually learn from each other and to solve some of these problems and to gain coming back to this point of actually applying some of the ideas about developing creative solutions and integrative ideas that we talk about as mediators on the real issues that we've got and recognising that when it comes to Things like being inclusive. That who is always of being excluded or included is very different in different parts of the world. So again, not thinking that just the issues that we have around inclusion in the in the UK or Australia or America are the same as what they might be in other countries and working in exchanging to learn from each other and how to do something about exclusion. And,
Isabel, I was just going to say we've got to 10 past 11. So obviously, we need a bit of time for questions, answer. So I was just maybe thinking you might want to kind of wrap up a little bit.
Thank you. Yeah. And I was going to I was going to finish with, with the flagging of the mediation symposium that we're going to be running, we have an annual mediation symposium in the car. And this year, we're focusing, going back to the Winnie's question about inclusion, on inclusion and exclusion, and what we as a mediation community across the world are actually doing to address that in all the different ways that that might be, might be done in different contexts in different countries. So please do have a look out for the the call for abstracts for for the symposium and welcome, I'm happy to take questions. Thank you for the time check, Michael. And that's me done. Okay, everybody stop screen sharing.
I promise. That's all right. Okay, that's just, I think the last poll question there. Which three of the following, you will only like to get from car membership. Okay.
Okay, so we'll, we'll run on for a little bit longer, if that's alright with everybody. So perhaps you'd like to anybody like to ask a question. Perhaps they'd like to put their hand up. We've got one or two. We've got Peter Cresswell, Peter. I haven't
been to Ethiopia. But I've been to Russia, and Eritrea, to talk to the judges. And I found on such visits, that there's a real need for a film that you can show, which demonstrates how arbitration works and how mediation works. And when I've looked for such a film, I've had to look at the Singapore film on arbitration, has the CIO considered producing a first class film, which could be shared around the world, which he demonstrates how an arbitration works, and B how a mediation works?
I think it's definitely something to think about. It's it presents a lot more problems than one might initially sort of think, again, not least around issues of of making sure that you've got something that looks representative, and that appeals to people across different cultural contexts. So it does present some challenges, but I think it is something that with some careful thinking and planning would be really helpful. And I certainly appreciate that I've been involved in creating some some films previously. And I have to say it's not without its its challenges, even for something as straightforward as that as the UK market, or once you get into the question of different contexts and also assumptions about what mediation actually does or doesn't look like.
Okay, thanks. So, one of the earlier questions is whether your slides will be available. And I'm sure if you're prepared to for that to happen that you can send them through to Martin and we can organise that but I'll leave that to you, Catherine, if that's okay. That's okay. Who else we got? Who wants Thank you, Catherine. Who else would like to ask her a question? Hands up. Yes.
Hello, hello. Thank you. Thank you. This. Yes, not so much a question but more an introduction. I've met quite quite a few of the people here We've met before, but I did notice. That's what I apologise. I was a bit late today in the talk from Louis earlier had quite a lot about speaking about diversity in terms of all different jurisdictions. And not only that, I understood not only jurisdiction, but diversity in general. And you also talking about seeing the interplay, if you like, between different forms of ADR. Now both of these are extremely relevant to me because I'm, I've got my own niche. As some of you know, I work in the Jewish community. And certain way, the only person who does what I do in terms of what I try to bridge in the Jewish community. And I'm always keen to make further connections with that and develop that further. And also, in my practice, I get a large variety of different things. And my whole sort of mission statement is to find the right tool, the right technique for the different things, I'm always using a mix of different types of ADR. So let's say the themes that you were talking about were things that are very relevant to me, and we'll get a chance to discuss it more another time. Okay, that's great.
But really happy to put my email address in the in the in the chat box. And if people do want to get in touch after this for a specific question or discussion, if we run out of time, then then please, please do
that. Thank you. Okay. All right. Any further questions? Who's got their hand up? Anybody? We have a question from an eater. Greg is asking, what are the qualifications to become an arbitrator? Do you want to do with that one? Katherine?
Yeah, no, I'm, I'm happy to I mean, you know, so arbitration not dissimilar to mediation is, you know, varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, we we do specific training for arbitrators, which, you know, would enable them to certainly have the requisite skills and qualification to go on and become arbitrators. And I'm, you know, really, really happy any time if you want to sort of contact me, after this meeting to provide you with some additional details about how that would look and the sort of courses that you could potentially do with us.
Yeah, so in fact, I guess what we're saying is that this, and I'm very fond of this car, because that's the way I started my arbitration training career. Training is excellent. And but there are no, you don't have to be trained in order to be an arbitrator, you probably wouldn't get very much work after the first one, because you'd probably make a mess of it. So the same probably goes for mediation as well. Okay, any other questions?
Can I ask just to pick up on on that point? I myself have done arbitration within the Jewish community, and we have our own system. Can I do find out? If you can give me a very succinct answer to your training in arbitration? Do they need a specifically legal background? And what we did
have to do you don't you don't? You don't you don't need a legal bat? You know, you don't need a legal qualification to undertake our training.
Right as a how are you going to arbitrate? If you don't know the system, which system of law you're going to arbitrate with? If you're not
so 70, so part of the training is, is in relation to the sort of legal system legal system that you need to understand in order to, to to arbitrate? Many, many of our members, so, so, so the legal aspects to that training, it's not legal training as such, but it gives you sufficient knowledge in order to to become an arbitrator. Many of our members are not legally qualified. You know, they may they may, you know, Chartered Surveyors, architects, you know, certainly, certainly professions other than other than the legal profession, even though certainly, our international arbitrators tend predominantly to have, you know, some form of legal background.
Right, that how long does it take to do your course? And is it realistic in the context of an existing busy career? Whether
yet it is, I think it depends on on your experience, as well. There's different routes to do the training, depending on the level of experience that you've had. But you know, I'll be very happy to because I'm conscious, you know, you're really happy, you know, rather than just sort of going through the whys and wherefores about our pathways. We can we can maybe do that through that offline rabbi. Problem.
Okay. Thank you. Let's take a couple more on what we're proposing to do after Dave is going to say something about the next meeting, we can leave the meeting open for a while, and people can chat, although hopefully not all at once. Let's take a couple more. We got a couple more questions. Everybody got their hand up?
He just got his hand up here, welder. Thank you. Thanks. This Milan isn't quite sure if you're suggesting that I'm UK mediator as well, we have a surplus of mediations should be exporting our services, by zoom to jurisdictions, where there may be more mediations, and there are mediators.
I certainly think that the opportunity for working across borders as a mediator in there and the way an online mediation that wouldn't previously have existed, to what extent the that means that people in another jurisdiction would want to ask somebody in this jurisdiction to mediate will depend, I would guess in the same way as it does depend on any mediation appointment, about people knowing about you and being willing to cross that boundary. So but the point about virtual and online mediation is it's virtual and online. So as long as you're willing to do the twilight zone of 330 to four in the morning, where the monsters come out to play it theoretically, there's nothing there's nothing stopping that from happening. Likewise, there's no in an online context, as does nothing stopping people doing things like shadowing, or getting experience or mentoring across across massive geographic spaces. And I think that opens up some potentially interesting options, both in terms of cost training, as we know already, but also in terms of practice.
Sure, I was just really wondering whether your institution other bodies, like the CMC, or get would feel it appropriate to try to push the UK mediation services to other parts of the world.
That's probably something that that is not again, not without its its challenges or its questions. And I think it's very new terrain. I mean, the CMC doesn't currently recognise people trained in online mediation is being being paid to mediate with people face to face. So there's still a big debate, I think, within the UK, about, about all elements of online and virtual training. It's, it's, it's really been, as I'm telling you, things that you already know, but it's really been a massive and very sudden shift from a market that was hugely sceptical of online, work at all, in February 2022. If it was happening at all, it was happening online by April 2020. And that's, that's an invalid facet of epic proportions. It to use the words of my my nephew's? Because it's all epic? You know? It seems to me that the opportunity here?
Well, I mean, I think what we would do is we would, you know, we facilitate the conversations to enable, you know, people, mediators from around the world parent, Amanda, we're a global organisation, to start having those conversations about opportunities in different jurisdictions, what we, what we, what we wouldn't do is we wouldn't just promote one jurisdiction over and over, because because we're global membership, a professional body, so we wouldn't be saying, you know, India, you know, please, please use UK, mediators, what we'd be saying is, you know, let's facilitate a conversation, perhaps between, you know, India in about some of the learnings of, of, of mandated mediation and explore whether there's any opportunities. I mean, obviously, it is not the seventh Great example, because there are some, if you've ever tried to, sort of, you know, enter the Indian market, it's not without its challenges, but, but the, you know, but but those are the sort of conversations that we can support and facilitate and enable members come together to have those conversations.
Thank you very much. Okay. Thank you, Michael. If Well, if, if we've got time for one more, Brian McMillan has had his hand up for a long time. Okay, all right. Go ahead. Yes.
Hello, everybody. Brian macfarlanes. My name, I'm a solicitor and mediator and soon to be hopefully an arbitrator, based in Ireland. Just to follow on from what Catherine said. I was on the first virtual diploma and commercial a drastic vericel arbitration. And I have to say that it was absolutely excellent, very professional, although very intense. If there was a full month, I don't think I had a day off with my my own writing my own practice and the demands of the course. But I have to say it was well worth it. And I would recommend it.
Thank you, Brian. Thank you, Brian. Thank you. Well, thank you to our three colleagues from the Chartered Institute. sarb. Very, very interesting, some very interesting questions. Lewis may have been too modest to mention that some of you may have seen that the JCT is just embracing dispute boards, and indeed, are going to be using the CR dispute board rules, which is a very interesting development as dispute boards, as some of you know, combine some of the techniques of mediation and also duplication. So Dave, just a wrap up. Do you want to? Perhaps I do. Thanks. Also, tell us about the next meeting, which will be in July. Over to you, Dave.
Yes. Thanks, Michael. Firstly, thank you to everybody who's joined today. And the next one is going to be on Wednesday, the 21st. July, Wednesday, 24th to July, I'll send a safe debate, email soon. And a general Colton is going to be our speaker. Thank you.
Thank you, everybody. Martin, to me leave, we'll leave the meeting open for a while. So people just want to chat. I'm going to make myself a cup of tea, and then maybe come back. So we'll leave it open for another what, say 15 minutes or something, Martin? Would that be okay, if people just want to network and and then chat. And also I think we're, we should have mentioned I think that we've got we've got London disputes week going on this this this week. So I think we've made quite a significant contribution. So again, as dad reiterate what David says about Thank you also to our speakers and guests, but also to all those of you who've participated. Thank you, so we'll leave it open.